Sheridan Employees Debate Veterans' Day vs. Columbus Day

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Sheridan Employees Debate Veterans' Day vs. Columbus Day

There has been some debate among City of Sheridan employees about changing their paid holidays. Veterans Day, because it always falls on November 11th, changes which day of the week it is every year. This is part of the reason some are asking about a vacation swap. HR Director Heather Doke:

However, because schools are out on Columbus Day instead of Veterans Day, some employees say having the City on the same “calendar” would help with logistical issues. Also, some say having the opportunity to spend more time with one's children and family is also a way to honor veterans, as these types of things are part of why many serve in the first place. However, not everyone shares that sentiment:

She says that because “they have about as many people on one side of the issue as the other,” for now, the 10 yearly City holidays will probably stay the same.

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I'm completely fine with

I'm completely fine with Columbus Day. I don't think it is meant to celebrate Columbus or his life. It is meant to celebrate an EVENT. That event being Columbus coming to the New World.

diplomacy at last

Thankyou wyo1234 for stating your opinion and in doing so, not degrading and demeaning Indian people as some close minded people have in their postings. I agree that most people don't have a clue about Columbus day, as a good many don't grasp Labor Day and a few other monday holidays.

There are a few states who have modified the celebration by changing the name/title.Here is some information regarding this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Col...

A good local example of this wise and compassionate thinking was when Custer Battlefield was changed to the Little Bighorn Battlefield, in part to honor the Indian people who fought and died there as well.

When you have the word "Columbus" in the title its pretty hard to get around. Like saying Christmas isn't really a celebration of Chistianity etc."

But back to the original arguement, for the City to not recognize Veterans day and to select Columbus day instead, as several people said, is self-serving and very disrespectful to veterans as a whole. I think that is a reasonable opinion, if you differ please post further.

From a Veteran via Facebook

Matthew Hamilton: As both a military combat veteran, and a Sioux Indian, I am all for ousting columbus day completely and then making Veterans and Memorial days happen numerous times throught the year instead of all the other B.S. Holidays we have now.

You got me scratching my

You got me scratching my head regarding the West India Trading Company. I'm reviewing my facts and will get back to you. I believe what I 'll find is the West India Trading Company became what it is because of Columbus trading/tranporting of slaves prior to 1621. But thankyou for correcting my generalization.

However: Your first post said the following:

"Lets get one thing strait. Columbus was neither a murderer or a kidnapper, or a slave trader"

In your second post you say the following "Columbus's treatment of the native people he encountered was deplorable, and yes he did take nearly 1200 of them back to Spain to be sold as slaves."

So by your own definition and facts: Is he or is he not a slave trader?

I love history, and I gather so do you. But my original outcry is simple. Why in this day and age, are we honoring this dispicable person some 500 years later?

I find this article/question

I find this article/question very interesting. Many of the previous posts have commented about the fact that not celebrating Columbus' day is a slap in the face to Native Americans. Well I find it a BIGGER slap in the face that I have to pay for all the Native Americans now whose great, great, great, great ancestors were actually the ones who were here when Columbus came. How many Native Americans today can say that they truly are due the money that all tax payers pay to them? Remember all whites, blacks, orientals, Mexicans, and other races pay for the Native Americans to collect their monthly checks. You see Veterans pay taxes too, so really it is a slap in the face to every Veteran that they are not as respected as the Native American people. So maybe we should pay the Veteran's of today as much or more than we are currently paying the Native Americans?!
So if some city employees want to take Veteran's day off because they either know or are related to a Veteran, then I say Columbus day should be out and Veteran's day should be in!
If the Native Americans don't want to come to Sheridan because they feel it is a slap in the face, well they have choices to spend their (my) money in other cities. It is time that someone stood up for the Veteran's of this country and started to show them some respect! I'm tired of showing respect(paying)for people who are so "proud" and yet live in a very disgusting place.
I have yet to find a veteran who is filthy, dirty, and messy because they choose to be. More often than not, veteran's don't have hardly anything to call their own and what few things they have are only the basic things to survive. Yet when traveling to Billings, one just needs to look out the window to see that people who are so "proud" have three or more junk cars, trash laying around, and so forth.
Veteran's have served this country and seen things that many Native Americans have not. So if honoring them with one simple day is too much, well then I guess our society has some screwed up priorities!

Very insightful comments,

Very insightful comments, me2. Apparently being ignorant, racist, and a bigot make you feel like a real patriot. According to the Pentagon, Native Amnericans represent less than 1% of the U.S. population, but they comprise 1.6% of all the armed forces. In some tribal communities, 1 out of every 200 adults have served in the military. Currently, nearly 20,000 Native American and Alaskan native people are in uniform. Your attitude and words are an insult to veterans, be they American Indian or any other race.

reply to Speed Goat

Interesting facts that you presented in your reply. You can call me all the names you want, it doesn't bother me. Now can you find facts about how many Veteran's are of the different races and give more facts on the veteran's? And I find it interesting that you feel that my words are an insult to every veteran regardless of race. My dad is a veteran, my father-in-law is a veteran, and after talking with them and other veteran's about the question, never once did they feel as though my attitude or discussion was an insult to them. Thank goodness that all veterans and those serving still fight for all the freedoms we have which includes freedom of speech. Thanks for your reply.

Well Me2, I guess your

Well Me2, I guess your opinions are exactly like your recent fore fathers. Sign a treaty with the Indians, and then complain about the terms. Perhaps you should look at the Fort Laramie Treaty, check out who didn't hold up their end of the terms, and then tell this "dirty, filthy and messy" Indian I should be thankful for your tax dollar.

And by the way I've worked in Indian Health Care and Government Indian Affairs for a good long time.I have a better idea of how much of your tax dollar goes towards "dirty filthy and messy" Indians. I'll gladly pay you back. I think I've got three or four pennys in my one of my "junk" cars.

And if you could get past your prejudice mind set for even one minute YOU WOULD HAVE NOTICED I AM TRYING I AM TRYING TO SUPPORT VETERANS DAY. My dirty, filthy and messy" Indian Father was a Purple Heart awarded Veteran.

reply to rev

I guess I missed in your other posts the fact that you were supporting Veteran's day as I mostly got the slap in the face to every Native American point. Yes, I think that we owe the Veteran more than we owe people of today because of the price that the veteran, their family, and so forth have paid. While some Native American's have been in the military, and I support them, I don't support people regardless of race or ethnic background that get paid to just live. If that makes me a racist, bigot, or whatever else as another post stated, well then I guess that is what I am. When faced with choosing between a veteran or Columbus & Native Americans, I will always choose a Veteran.

Since you have worked in the Indian Health Care and Gov't. Indian Affairs, how does my tax dollar compared to the care that is given to the Veteran's? Just curious.

My father and father-in-law are both Veterans along with my husband being half Indian, so I find it interesting when someone calls me prejudice and racist. Some people when challenged from the mainstream thinking resort to name calling. Oh well, I can take name calling.

As a nation, I feel that we should observe Veteran's day as a national holiday. That's my response/opinion to this question.
Thanks for your reply.

Paid holidays

How about, in order to not offend anyone, lets just do away with any and all paid holidays? If you are not actually working, you are not earning anything. It is like a donation to you from your employer, not earned, just a gift. If you are any kind of government employee, you are getting a lot more 'gifts' from your employer (the taxpayer) than the civilian employees. I sure hope I didn't offend anyone with this suggestion.

revsmall

you seem to be a very intelligent person... no one in sheridan will ever understand your point of view.....limited capacity... keep trying tho......and good luck

Columbus Day instead of Veterans' Day - Are you kidding me?

It is unconscionable that the City would even CONSIDER trading Veterans' Day for Columbus Day just to get City employees a day off tied to the weekend. And, the idea that giving the City employees an extra day off to spend with family would be 'honoring' Veterans is so blatantly self serving that it doesn't even warrant a response.

Michael Fox

Another brainstorm idea

Heres a thought, so we can make it educational as well as have a holiday: On Columbus Day have the City employees construct exact replica's of the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria,and parade them down main street, while singing "In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue"...then in a reinactment, symbolically overtake my lawn and claim it for their own....;)

Oh and don't forget the neighbors

Lets not forget to offend the folks who reside in Kirby, Busby, Lame Deer, and Crow Agency: who are predominately Native American, who have a very high ratio of joining our Armed Forces, who shop in Sheridan and support our local shops and services. By all means lets close down city hall and support a holiday that the vast majority of Native Americans despise and ignore Veteran's Day....I love living in Sheridan but some days I just got to scratch my crimson neck.

wow!

from what i could tell every day is a holiday for city employees!

Maybe we shouldn't celibrate

Maybe we shouldn't celibrate Labor Day because it is a slap in the face to non-union people. Or Independance Day because the British might not like it. Or Martin Luther King Jr day because it might offend the KKK. Perhaps the hippys are offended by Veterans day. Or maybe we could just stop being offended by everything.

Its offensive Jared, plain

Its offensive Jared, plain and simple. So your argument is, well everyone is offended to some degree at something so its just cool? Can you really in good consciousness lump Martin Luther King and Columbus together? And if you can I don't want to have any further debate.

I find this an great day to

I find this an great day to celibrate. Thanks to Columbus, modern civilization was brought to the Americas. He brought the wheel with him, the cornerstone of civilization. Before he got here people were dragging things around on sticks and blankets. Way to go Columbus!

Jared, what history book are

Jared, what history book are you reading and what are you doing while you are reading it? The Wheel????

Yes, the wheel. The Indians

Yes, the wheel. The Indians didn't have a wheel. Maybe they should celibrate the fact that they recieved the gift of greater technology. And thanks to Columbus for fire water.

Dang, how the hell do you

Dang, how the hell do you get that substance into Sheridan...and Wyoming doesn't have a legalized pot license yet...

GOOD ONE! I don't know why

GOOD ONE! I don't know why I didn't think of that. Maybe the next time somebody says something I can't refute I will just claim that they smoke pot. I'm sure all agree, I have been bested.

Well here's a fact from the

Well here's a fact from the smithsonian:

The earliest wheels in North America were used for toys.

In the 1940s, archaeologists unearthed wheeled toys—ceramic dogs and other animals with wheels as legs—in pre-Colombian layers of sediment in Vera Cruz, Mexico.

And before you say something stupid like "so the mexicans were first", be aware there were indigenous Indians in what is now Mexico too.

"don't bogart that joint my friend"

Really

Maybe the Native American's should worry about what's happening to their people today and not give a hoot about Christopher and his actions 518 years ago. It's time to let go of the past and live for today.

Gee Zebra, that is the

Gee Zebra, that is the point, I am worried about Native Americans and the fact that we still celebrate a person who is a kidnapper, murderer and slave trader even after some 518 years...so who is living in the past???

Typical response

I bet if i went to Lodge Grass or Wyola schools and took a poll and asked the kids who Columbus was and what he did, I bet kidnapper, murderer or slave trader would not be mentioned. From what i've seen rev., Columbus is the least of your problems, maybe you should focus your energy on today's REAL problems and that would be unemployment, alcoholism and pure lack of pride amongst the Plains Native Americans. You can blame the white man till hell freezes over but when it comes down to it, each and every native american can prosper in this world if they choose too. It's not my fault or Chrisopher's fault.

Got to agree with ol ZEBRA,

Got to agree with ol ZEBRA, you could go to Lodge Grass or Wyola, and actually while you are at it, go to Sheridan High and take a poll about what they know about Columbus. Yep Columbus is conveniently skipped over, just as most of Indian history is convenietly left out of the class room. What most people know about Columbus is the song "In 1492 Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue". I guess your telling me that since it's not in the school curriculum it just plain never happened.

Given your wonderful opinion of the folks in Wyola and Lodge Grass, I'd have to say you and bigot minded people like you are our REAL problem.

Bad things

ol rev there has been bad things happen to every race, my whole point is that instead of worrying about what happen 518 years ago, move forward. I've spent alot of time on the Crow and some time on the Pine Ridge and what Columbus or any other person has done to the natives isn't anything like you are doing to your own people today. Instead of sitting around pointing fingers, somebody needs to take action and it has to start on the inside.
Pick the battles that will help your people. Worrying about Columbus day or sports teams nickname isn't helping your people move ahead in the world. The world isn't fair and never will be. As far as name calling goes, I just stated a fact: unemployment and alcoholism. The pride part? explain to me why the reservations look like they do? Crow Agency, Busby, Browning, Pine Ridge, Porcupine or Oglala. The tribal leaders are corrupt and steal from the tribes. Explain that and blame me or Columbus in same breath!

Piece of cake Zebra, anytime

Piece of cake Zebra, anytime you take: high unemployment, no or little economy, little to no opportunities, poor education, parents that can't help their kids with home work etc etc. You will find exactly what you are talking about. Slum conditions, high alcohol and drug abuse, domestic violence, etc etc. But for some reason you blame it on being "Indian". If you've spent so much time on the Rez then you would also have noticed that there are folks that have done okay. They are primarily the farm/ranchers because thats one of the few opportuniites there is. Their places or not run down etc. But you prefer to just group all us little Indians into one...makes it alot easier for ya' doesn't it.

Evidently you have NOT spent time in any slum area of a major city, or how about pockets of the south. Oh wait, alot of those fols are minority populations as well. Well hell I guess you're right, its because of their race. And boy if they'd just show some pride and have you for a role model they'd be just fine.

I've worked for the improvement of Indian people most of my life, yet you evidently think its just a simple little problem of being lazy and unmotivated. Perhaps we can put you on a resevation tour as a motivational speaker? Problem solved, and all before lunch...

Maybe..

After i read what you right, I think you could be more of the problem than part of the solution! All you've done is call me a racist and everybody else that doesn't agree with you and you blame somebody else for the problems on the rez. The Rez system is a pure example of an entitlement society. You worry about Columbus and the real problems are what you listed above. Re-focus your energy and do the right thing. Columbus day going away will not help the unemployment or alcoholism.
The Seminoles and Cherokee are examples of tribes that have taken the resources they were given and moved forward. They weren't screaming about Columbus or the Fort Laramie Treaty.
It's time to forgive and/or forget and move forward. That will be the only way you can "work for the improvement of Indian people"

As I said before ZEBRA you

As I said before ZEBRA you are missing your calling as an Indian Motivational Speaker.

Your opinion is not based in fact, just closed minded bigotry. You can't even keep focused on the subject at hand which is city employees switching veterans day for Columbus day. You are only looking for an avenue to spit your bigotry venom. You post away from here on out,,,life's too short even on the Rez.

"I've worked for the

"I've worked for the improvement of Indian people most of my life"

Might want to find a new line of work... How many ideas did you have to throw at this issue in a life time?

What is your measure for success? I honestly see a lot of issues with your post, but I do see a few words of conviction and truth. I don't know your background/ethnicity but I didn't like how you limited ones success to farm/ranching within the reservation.. The "reservation" in the past was a word that dealt with confinement. This is no longer the case, the word no longer has that meaning, and the responsibility of "opportunity" falls squarely on the individual that can buy into modern education and at the same time allow themselves to let go of an element of heritage.

ready when you are dillio

oh my, would you like to post your resume next to mine? I'm ready when you are.

Is your resume your measure

Is your resume your measure of success? I guess in some cases it could be.. Anyway, im not going to get drawn into that debate. For kicks I re looked at this thread and tried to understand how it was on topic from the main artical. It seems some people felt compeled to debate or attack the purpose of Columbus Day. Columbus Day is part of American history, as is Veterans' Day. Both have equal importaince in American history. Both have a good side, and both in my oppinion have a dark side. I think it's importaint to honor the good side of both if it is importaint to you. The artical was about the shifting of paid hoidays. In my oppinion all holidays should be workable holidays, and an employee should be given a set amount of floater holidays each year. Any person should be able to take the floater holidays on the day that means the most to them, provided it does not impact the needs of the business. Fighting over stuff like this to me seems crazy when so many people are out of work and who's lives were destroyed by banks who were trying to drive profit. Ask the people who are out of work or out of a home what a paid holiday would mean to them. Sadly it would be about the dollar, and not the meaning of the holiday itself.

Columbus vs. Veterans Day

Instead of being concerned whether your kids are in school how about considering the holiday(s) we celebrate. Should we be Celebrating a day for our honored veterans or instead, hey how about celebrating the life of a kidnapping, murdering, slave trader by the name of Christopher. Truly a slap in the face to every Native American.

Kidnapping, murdering slave trader?

Lets get one thing strait. Columbus was neither a murderer or a kidnapper, or a slave trader. He was an explorer and trader, and for lack of a better term, a moron. He believed until the end that his explorations in what we now call the Caribbean, was along the east coast of Asia. Even after many others had confirmed that it was indeed a new continent. Now on the issue at hand I feel that Columbus day is a joke as a holiday. The fact that the government schools banks ect. will shut down to honor a man that never stepped foot in what would become the United States, but on a day set aside to honor the men and women that provide the freedoms that this country holds dear, schools are still in section and many other businesses and organizations are open for business. Maybe we should rethink our priorities. As for Columbus day being a slap in the face to native Americans, He had no contact with any Native Americans or any influence on how Native Americans have been treated over the years.

Why don't you post your

Why don't you post your proof that Columbus was a nice guy and a hell of a humanitarain, because there is plenty written to the contrary. Why don't you check out his little slave trade deals with the West Indian Trading Company for starters. He attacked,kidnapped and murdered indiginous people in what is now Haiti and the islands surrounding.

And oh by the way, yes I still care who he killed however many odd years ago, just as I care about the actions of the 7th cavalry against my own people.

You need to read up on Columbus before you give him your blessing if your blessing means anything to you. I am offended that such a holiday exist,and we, as a nation divided on the topic, still celebrate it, and I will still be offended every time its celebrated.

Nice Guy?

Never once did i say that Columbus was a nice guy or a humanitarian. You want facts, here you go. Columbus died May 20th 1506 in Spain. The West India Trading Company, which was responsible for 90% of the slave trading, was established in The Netherlands on June 2nd 1621. Nearly 115 years after Columbus died. Can't quite figure out how Columbus was able to have dealing with the West India Trading Company when he was very dead. Columbus's treatment of the native people he encountered was deplorable, and yes he did take nearly 1200 of them back to Spain to be sold as slaves. I am not now and never will defend the actions of Columbus or his men. However his actions in that time were not unusual and even though today we would consider what he did a crime, in his time it was business as usual.